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First look --- comments on MTPro2 fonts (Michael Zedler)

 
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PTIForAdmin



Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 84
Location: San Francisco, CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject: First look --- comments on MTPro2 fonts (Michael Zedler) Reply with quote

> - the glyph names in the symbol fonts (e.g., mt2syt.pfb) are completely off. If the glyphs followed http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_glyph.html, a pdf can be searched by AR as well as Google. (STIX will most probably follow this naming scheme)

> - the paper format of guide2.pdf is incorrect
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PTIForAdmin



Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 84
Location: San Francisco, CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: First look --- MTPro2 fonts (reply by Michael Spivak) Reply with quote

Quote:

> > - the glyph names in the symbol fonts (e.g., mt2syt.pfb) are
> > completely off. If the glyphs followed http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_glyph.html, a pdf can be searched
> > by AR as well as Google. (STIX will most probably follow this
> > naming scheme)
>

I don't know what any of the stuff about glyph names means. I presume this has something to do with the
> names assigned to various characters, as opposed to the default ASCII names that Fontographer uses.

Zedler: Correct.

> That is, for example, in the symbol font, the \forall character occurs at position '070, which is where the digit 8 goes in ASCII, so the encoding for mt2syt makes 8 the name of the \forall character, whereas some people would be much happier
> if it had some other name.

Zedler: Correct, according to AGL the forall glyph should have the name /universal or /uni2200.

> This is something I've never concerned myself about at all, because I just want to use the fonts with TeX, not with any other programs of any sort, including searching programs. If this is important, I can go to the trouble of making new fonts (I wouldn't be surprised if every single font, not just the symbol font, would need to be redone).

Zedler: Yes, it applies to all pfb.


> I suppose that some one with a bit of understanding about how PostScript names should work could make a simple program that would take a PostScript font and a <name file> and remake the PostScript font so that the names in <name file> become the names in the PostScript font. Indeed, it seems that it would be ludicrous to do the whole process by hand, instead of just getting some one to write such a file.

Zedler: Fontforge can do that, just as a perl script that operates on the output of t1disasm. But it takes someone to write the encoding vectors.

> In any case, however, I'm not willing to try to read through all the gobblydegook about how the names are supposed to be made. Some one would simply have to tell me what names go with which symbols (i.e., give a <name file> for each font).
>
> I guess we should make a decision about this soon, before the fonts are actually released. (Of course, no one seems to have protested before about the older fonts.)

Zedler: Well, STIX is around the corner, and they will most probably use correct glyph names. BTW, the Y&Y mathtime fonts had mostly correct glyph names (don't know about mtpro1).

Quote:
the paper format of guide2.pdf is incorrect


Perhaps he is referring to the fact that I've placed pages near the upper left, rather than centered. (This was originally done to facilitate the production of printed versions, where each page was supposed to fit on half of an 8.5" x 11'' sheet.) I could, of course, easily
> change things. Is this important?

Zedler: It'd be best if the pdf paper size were correct, this'll ease printing/imposing. For guide2.pdf something around 140mm x 215mm looks ok.
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Michael Spivak



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:09 pm    Post subject: glyph names Reply with quote

I guess this is important (at least for some people), so we should make a decision.

What I personally don't understand is why any one would care.

1. First of all, surely a mathematician would like to search according to the TeX name. I suppose some one might guess that \forall is "really"
/universal, though how they would know it's /uni2200 is totally beyond me. It would seem, in general, that some one would have to look up any symbol they wanted to search for in some vast catalogue (like poor Walter, wondering what U2A3C is).

2. Why would some one be searching through a file for a single symbol?
I suppose they might want to find the equation 1+1=2, but my guess is that search programs won't be able to find this, since there will actually be the PostScript commands for spacing around the + and the = also.

3. What would we do with all the the symbols in MTProTwo (I like this name rather than MTProll, which looks like a font made for the proletariat)
that *aren't* STYX symbols (because they were made by a person concerned with actual typesetting rather than a committee). How would we distinguish between \circ and \comp? What would we call '111 on the symbol font, which is used to extend double arrows, rather than single ones. For that matter, how would one one search for extra long arrows or double arrows that have been constructed? How would one distinguish the ; on the symbol font from the ; in text? What about \openclubsuit, \shadedspadesuit, etc? Would \models be different from the similar character on the additional symbol fonts?
How about \ddot versus \ddotup? Or \varland versus the ampersand symbol? Would \Re and \Im on the symbol font be different that the R and I on the fraktur font? (especially if some one decided to use those fraktur letters instead of the \Re and \Im already on the symbol font?
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WaS



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Erlangen, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: glyph names Reply with quote

Michael Spivak wrote:
I guess this is important (at least for some people), so we should make a decision.


In the long run it may be useful to add glyph names, but this
needs still a lot of discussion.
The upcoming release of the fonts, however, should definitely
not be deferred just because of this issue.

Walter
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Michael Spivak



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, that's fine by me!
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